Thanks Atul for this. It's indeed important to have guidance, clearance and Legal clarity on who can put out proposals, what they should entail and who how has the right to vote.
I 100% back xdc.dev for the growing, scaling and ever expansion of the XDC Network as a L1. It's been a nice 'experiment' thus far to test engagement, voting, interactions, comments, thoughts, doubt etc.
From other comments I've noted that xdc.dev is for the improvement/development etc. of XDCNetwork as a L1 and is not for L2's to pitch an token sales e.g.
Perhaps many will be covered by the Legal Review process which is going to put out guidelines, but I'd like to use this opportunity to express my own 'concerns' having watched the xdc.dev space for a while now.
Who can vote, and what are the minimum requirements to cast a vote? Perhaps this will be covered under 'on-chain' vote, where a wallet holding minimum of 1000 XDC or so is required.. I'd want to avoid that illegitimate actors cast votes and then have bots/fake accounts/all their friends create accounts to massively vote YES for it to pass.
Who can put out proposals? Literally everyone?
Are the monetary funding request benchmarked against industry average or how will they be measured to be 'fair'? Ex; I've seen a proposal putting a range between 30-50K USD worth per Quarter for 'team salaries' at the time of writing with only 1 team member present. IMO If you are a founder of a crypto project, you are an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs either use their own capital or borrow funding with an FI. Smart entrepreneurs think real carefully what they spend their funds on and the last thing they do is paying themselves hefty salaries, if not any salary at all. Typically for the first 3-5 years before they can be deemed a success and profitable at all. Dumb entrepreneurs burn money on the wrong things; newest equipment, expensive company car etc. etc. before even building something decent, and don't even make it through the first 24 months. So when I see 'Team Salaries' for a one man show crypto project at 30K per Quarter, I think it's WAY too high. If they'd make 10K a months, they should pay themselves $2,500 MAX a month and re-invest $7,500 into their business. Not requesting a 10K a month salary and then requesting additional funding for 'development, legal fees etc. etc.'
How will spending be tracked by those that receive support and consequently funds?
These are just some of my initial thoughts. Please mind I'm all for this development and are supporting it, but my interest is to protect XinFin, XDCNetwork, XDCFoundation and XDC.Dev's funds against illegitimate actors who are out there stealing our funds, liquidating XDC for FIAT upon receiving and or just allocating XDC this way for their own personal gain, hence I want to put this out there.
Absolutely, and all these very much resonate with whats about to come from legal. We will get the processes up first for proposal voting. No proposal will be exception and everyone will have to go through the same process.
Thanks Atul! Good to hear you and Legal Team are fully onto it. I wouldn't doubt it, but I also did not, NOT want to speak up to express my own concerns.
This is an open forum and we definitely want everyone to participate.
Frankly I'd love to see more from community criticising each proposal. It's actually strange and sad to see every one just saying Yes. Wondering if all those participating have even read it or understand what everything means
It's unfortunate indeed. In the UPC we manage, the overall Community Sentiment is positive, which we ensure it remains. However, there will always be folks complaining whilst showing little effort in the back to ensure and support change when the opportunity presents itself. It is a sad reality.
I lack the creativity unfortunately to think of a better alternative solution than this to open up an opportunity for the community to let it's voices be heard. I'm a sales guy, not very tech-savy from an engineering, building and designing perspective. So I wouldn't be able to think of an alternative way as to know.
We'd want community engagement, we'd want as much community members to vote, but at the same time we'd also not just want everyone to vote with a standard YES (for reasons that; the proposal is a well written sales pitch to holders but not necessarily in favour of the XDCNetwork, the author is a friend, associate or has many followers on Twitter e.g.). Just thinking out loud here, but perhaps an alternative would be something like 'voting power', not necessarily retrieved from the Amount of Holdings as it could create a centralized monopoly effect of big bag holders. But perhaps something like voting credits. Members only having X amount of votes periodically (week, month, quarter e.g.) so they better think through what to vote on. However, this would then also limit engagement and decrease overall voting numbers across all proposals, and would also affect legitimate proposals.
Proposals can be put forward with great ideas, initiatives, proposals to improve scalability, technical capacity, adoption, efficiency, even bring forward brand new ideas. For me the monetary requirements have been the biggest point of criticism thus far. It's indifferent to any random individual with the ability to vote which funds, at what amounts are spent on what. It's not their money after all and therefore they might think very lightly of it.
Proposals from Foundation Members, are different in my eyes as they in a way come from 'within', but we might want to look into Benchmarking the budgets and in particular for the Salary Ranges for others, or capping them to avoid random authors setting their own salaries. I see 10K USD a month in salaries being put out from individual contributor roles to (jr) engineers, coders etc. Blockchain experienced coders, devs and engineers might be scarcer driving up the price, but in my experience only Principal Engineers make that kind of money.
15 years launching disruptive healthcare technology companies in a variety of partnerships and revenue generating roles. Founder of DØP3 Club NFT and owner of XDCNFT. Passionate XDC Ambassador!
I assume your 50k per quarter budget was aimed at me. So I’ll address that directly my friend. Please see below:
Founder 4K
Full time dev 10k
Marketing & Socials (contract) $1,000
Content & editing (contract) $1,000
Legal (4 hours) $1000
This is literally a shoe string budget my friend.
The founders is only paid $1k per week
Any fully doxxed dev in the US who is worth his/her salt will not be paid less than 10k
Socials & Editors for the content will be contract/outsourced and basically paid like interns
If your legal affairs are not in order, your risk and liability go through the roof
I obviously did not build this website. So for you to act like I’m a one man band is just a false statement. That’s why I didn’t roll this out until I had something to show. I’m a builder brother.
This is a one year runway to a full sustainable model.
Atul,
I couldn’t agree more. We should approach all projects with a healthy amount of skepticism.
And fully vet each project and project owner.
I’m happy to battle test and pressure test my model.
And yes, you should have to connect a wallet and votes should only come from actual community members.
@onxdcnetwork Thanks for stepping up and posting here. This is not just a tech forum but even the governance for years to come will need to work from here through proposals.
About your proposal : i like it although i have not voted for it yet.
The reason is that onchain voting dapp is not ready and also legal is to share guidelines on everything.
Please allow legal to draft policies and share here.
15 years launching disruptive healthcare technology companies in a variety of partnerships and revenue generating roles. Founder of DØP3 Club NFT and owner of XDCNFT. Passionate XDC Ambassador!
Thanks for reviewing this proposal. I've been working really hard to build on, promote, and unify the XDC Network. What I've learned is that the biggest impact will come by promoting not one, but ALL of the companies and projects building on the XDC Network!
Rising tide 🌊 will lift all boats 🛶
The great news is that I've done this many times successfully before, and I get to apply my knowledge and experience to an ecosystem that I really believe in.
Happy to make sure our proposal and project is fully compliant, and I will have no problem passing any background checks. Let's build something special together!
I hope to 'earn' your vote of confidence in this project.
For further actions, you may consider blocking this person and/or reporting abuse
Thanks Atul for this. It's indeed important to have guidance, clearance and Legal clarity on who can put out proposals, what they should entail and who how has the right to vote.
I 100% back xdc.dev for the growing, scaling and ever expansion of the XDC Network as a L1. It's been a nice 'experiment' thus far to test engagement, voting, interactions, comments, thoughts, doubt etc.
From other comments I've noted that xdc.dev is for the improvement/development etc. of XDCNetwork as a L1 and is not for L2's to pitch an token sales e.g.
Perhaps many will be covered by the Legal Review process which is going to put out guidelines, but I'd like to use this opportunity to express my own 'concerns' having watched the xdc.dev space for a while now.
Who can vote, and what are the minimum requirements to cast a vote? Perhaps this will be covered under 'on-chain' vote, where a wallet holding minimum of 1000 XDC or so is required.. I'd want to avoid that illegitimate actors cast votes and then have bots/fake accounts/all their friends create accounts to massively vote YES for it to pass.
Who can put out proposals? Literally everyone?
Are the monetary funding request benchmarked against industry average or how will they be measured to be 'fair'? Ex; I've seen a proposal putting a range between 30-50K USD worth per Quarter for 'team salaries' at the time of writing with only 1 team member present. IMO If you are a founder of a crypto project, you are an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs either use their own capital or borrow funding with an FI. Smart entrepreneurs think real carefully what they spend their funds on and the last thing they do is paying themselves hefty salaries, if not any salary at all. Typically for the first 3-5 years before they can be deemed a success and profitable at all. Dumb entrepreneurs burn money on the wrong things; newest equipment, expensive company car etc. etc. before even building something decent, and don't even make it through the first 24 months. So when I see 'Team Salaries' for a one man show crypto project at 30K per Quarter, I think it's WAY too high. If they'd make 10K a months, they should pay themselves $2,500 MAX a month and re-invest $7,500 into their business. Not requesting a 10K a month salary and then requesting additional funding for 'development, legal fees etc. etc.'
How will spending be tracked by those that receive support and consequently funds?
These are just some of my initial thoughts. Please mind I'm all for this development and are supporting it, but my interest is to protect XinFin, XDCNetwork, XDCFoundation and XDC.Dev's funds against illegitimate actors who are out there stealing our funds, liquidating XDC for FIAT upon receiving and or just allocating XDC this way for their own personal gain, hence I want to put this out there.
Absolutely, and all these very much resonate with whats about to come from legal. We will get the processes up first for proposal voting. No proposal will be exception and everyone will have to go through the same process.
Thanks Atul! Good to hear you and Legal Team are fully onto it. I wouldn't doubt it, but I also did not, NOT want to speak up to express my own concerns.
This is an open forum and we definitely want everyone to participate.
Frankly I'd love to see more from community criticising each proposal. It's actually strange and sad to see every one just saying Yes. Wondering if all those participating have even read it or understand what everything means
It's unfortunate indeed. In the UPC we manage, the overall Community Sentiment is positive, which we ensure it remains. However, there will always be folks complaining whilst showing little effort in the back to ensure and support change when the opportunity presents itself. It is a sad reality.
I lack the creativity unfortunately to think of a better alternative solution than this to open up an opportunity for the community to let it's voices be heard. I'm a sales guy, not very tech-savy from an engineering, building and designing perspective. So I wouldn't be able to think of an alternative way as to know.
We'd want community engagement, we'd want as much community members to vote, but at the same time we'd also not just want everyone to vote with a standard YES (for reasons that; the proposal is a well written sales pitch to holders but not necessarily in favour of the XDCNetwork, the author is a friend, associate or has many followers on Twitter e.g.). Just thinking out loud here, but perhaps an alternative would be something like 'voting power', not necessarily retrieved from the Amount of Holdings as it could create a centralized monopoly effect of big bag holders. But perhaps something like voting credits. Members only having X amount of votes periodically (week, month, quarter e.g.) so they better think through what to vote on. However, this would then also limit engagement and decrease overall voting numbers across all proposals, and would also affect legitimate proposals.
Proposals can be put forward with great ideas, initiatives, proposals to improve scalability, technical capacity, adoption, efficiency, even bring forward brand new ideas. For me the monetary requirements have been the biggest point of criticism thus far. It's indifferent to any random individual with the ability to vote which funds, at what amounts are spent on what. It's not their money after all and therefore they might think very lightly of it.
Proposals from Foundation Members, are different in my eyes as they in a way come from 'within', but we might want to look into Benchmarking the budgets and in particular for the Salary Ranges for others, or capping them to avoid random authors setting their own salaries. I see 10K USD a month in salaries being put out from individual contributor roles to (jr) engineers, coders etc. Blockchain experienced coders, devs and engineers might be scarcer driving up the price, but in my experience only Principal Engineers make that kind of money.
Hi Boris,
I assume your 50k per quarter budget was aimed at me. So I’ll address that directly my friend. Please see below:
Founder 4K
Full time dev 10k
Marketing & Socials (contract) $1,000
Content & editing (contract) $1,000
Legal (4 hours) $1000
This is literally a shoe string budget my friend.
The founders is only paid $1k per week
Any fully doxxed dev in the US who is worth his/her salt will not be paid less than 10k
Socials & Editors for the content will be contract/outsourced and basically paid like interns
If your legal affairs are not in order, your risk and liability go through the roof
I obviously did not build this website. So for you to act like I’m a one man band is just a false statement. That’s why I didn’t roll this out until I had something to show. I’m a builder brother.
This is a one year runway to a full sustainable model.
Atul,
I couldn’t agree more. We should approach all projects with a healthy amount of skepticism.
And fully vet each project and project owner.
I’m happy to battle test and pressure test my model.
And yes, you should have to connect a wallet and votes should only come from actual community members.
@onxdcnetwork Thanks for stepping up and posting here. This is not just a tech forum but even the governance for years to come will need to work from here through proposals.
About your proposal : i like it although i have not voted for it yet.
The reason is that onchain voting dapp is not ready and also legal is to share guidelines on everything.
Please allow legal to draft policies and share here.
Glad to see a new active community member.
Hi Atul,
Thanks for reviewing this proposal. I've been working really hard to build on, promote, and unify the XDC Network. What I've learned is that the biggest impact will come by promoting not one, but ALL of the companies and projects building on the XDC Network!
Rising tide 🌊 will lift all boats 🛶
The great news is that I've done this many times successfully before, and I get to apply my knowledge and experience to an ecosystem that I really believe in.
Happy to make sure our proposal and project is fully compliant, and I will have no problem passing any background checks. Let's build something special together!
I hope to 'earn' your vote of confidence in this project.